PS4 NA v1.00 Master Bug List

[Captain B. Zarre]

Taxi

After picking up a certain passenger, the Million light flashes even though it shouldn't be

 

[Queue]

Not that it matters at this point, but I stumbled upon a review of TPA on the PS4, by a reputable video game journalism site, that mentions the stutter. The reviewer writes,

It isn’t without issues though, there have been numerous crashes on various tables and on occasions you could be in the middle of a great round and the game will stutter and freeze momentarily. However, these issues are rare in comparison to the amount of time you’ll spend playing and will hopefully be patched at a later date.

You can read the rest of the review here: http://gamestyle.com/review/the-pinball-arcade-season-1-table-pack-review/

Not that anyone ever doubted me.

 

[---stone---]

Not that it matters at this point, but I stumbled upon a review of TPA on the PS4, by a reputable video game journalism site, that mentions the stutter. The reviewer writes,



You can read the rest of the review here: http://gamestyle.com/review/the-pinball-arcade-season-1-table-pack-review/

Not that anyone ever doubted me.

No issues with stuttering since I re-downloaded.

Hope you get it resolved soon. I know what an annoyance it can be.

 

[Cyborg]

I also tried deleting and re-downloading, but that didn't change a thing for me: stuttering in the first game (AfM). Not that I was expecting anything to change - there's not really a logical connection. Feels more like grasping at straws. Still, it was worth a try.

 

[Vince]

I also tried deleting and re-downloading, but that didn't change a thing for me: stuttering in the first game (AfM). Not that I was expecting anything to change - there's not really a logical connection. Feels more like grasping at straws. Still, it was worth a try.

Did any of you stutter guys try a defrag' yet?

I looked about, and it seems that 'Rebuild Database' does that thing:


1) Turn the PlayStation 4 system completely off. Not in standby. Wait approximately 15 seconds to allow the Hard Drive to fully spin down.

2) Enter Safe Mode by pressing and holding the power button on the system till you hear the 2nd beep. Approximately 7 seconds.

3) Plug the DualShock 4 controller in to one of the systems USB ports with the supplied Micro USB Cable and press the 'PS' button on the controller.

4) Scroll down down to option "5. Rebuild Database" and press X. Choose Yes to continue.

The system will start the process and do not power down the system doing so might result in data corruption. It may take 30 seconds or longer depending on the amount of data on your hard drive.

*Note: You will not lose any data by preforming this.



This is just a thought, as I have no stutter at all.

 

[Daniel Osborne]

Me neither, and I've really hammered this game, including three hours of creature just now trying to get the super jackpot. ***** that one. Probably as bad as the double slide on Elvira's party monsters.

 

[Queue]

Did any of you stutter guys try a defrag' yet?

After everything that we've done on our end, I really don't think that this is an isolated problem with our hardware. The fact that a review by a professional journalism website mentions the stutter indicates to me that it's a software-related bug with this particular game, which perhaps only manifests on some displays. The PS3 version had a similar issue with input lag: some displays had it, others didn't. Enough people have complained about it that the only likely solution is for Farsight to discover how to reproduce the effect, find the cause, and patch it.

I've spent enough time troubleshooting this that it really has come down to little more than a guessing game. I've reinstalled the game six times total, and it's accomplished nothing. I really don't want to continue fiddling with the hard drive when there is zero evidence that is the cause, for fear of creating more problems.

If Stone was experiencing the exact the same stutter as Cyborg and I, and he resolved it by redownloading, but we haven't, then perhaps there is an issue with the way that TPA downloads updates and additional content, which conflicts with some networks and corrupts the data. After reinstalling again, I noticed that TPA doesn't download the table packs through the PS4 UI, but through the game itself. In other words, TPA seems to download content independently from the UI, and therefore perhaps bypasses the download integrity check.

Like I've said before, I've personally witnessed this on two completely different setups, mine and friend's. I have an LG LCD; he has a Samsung LCD. My console was manufactured in October, his in September. Our PS4s are from two completely separate batches, our displays are from two completely different manufacturers, and we both have this problem. We've done almost everything suggested on this thread, and nothing has worked as of yet. The only device that we share is the router; we both have a Motorola SBG6580. I connect through Wi-Fi; he connects through LAN. We both experience the stutter, though, so my last guess is that perhaps there really is a conflict with the way TPA handles downloads and some home networks. We don't get this problem with ANY other PS4 game, so it HAS to be specific to this game.

I wish that I had more ideas, but I'm at a loss. I've spent the past week troubleshooting this glitch, and after an utterly fruitless endeavor, I'm worn out. To be completely frank, I really don't even care anymore. All this work isn't worth the upset for one single game. I sincerely hope that Farsight eventually unearths the glitch and resolves it, but as for my part, there isn't much more that I can do. Thanks to everyone who has contributed to troubleshooting the stutter, but it's in Farsight's hands now. Perhaps some lucky fellow will solve the riddle and post a detailed step-by-step procedure that eliminates the stutter once and for all. I'm not holding my breath, though.

 

[smbhax]

The fact that a review by a professional journalism website mentions the stutter indicates to me that it's a software-related bug with this particular game, which perhaps only manifests on some displays.

Maybe, but what you quote the reviewer as saying, "numerous crashes on various tables and on occasions you could be in the middle of a great round and the game will stutter and freeze momentarily," sounds quite a bit different than what you've described experiencing yourself. And I don't think anyone else here has seen anything like their "numerous crashes"--or at least, nobody's mentioned anything like that that I've seen. And I don't think a display device can cause a crash. So I think whatever problem that person was having must have been something different.

 

[Queue]

So I think whatever problem that person was having must have been something different.

You're conflating the reviewer's remarks about two separate bugs. He said that he's experienced crashes AND stuttering. He doesn't elaborate as to what he means by crashing, but based on my own experiences, I assume he's talking about bugs such as the one in Funhouse that prevents you from starting a new game, or the bug in TOTAN that causes the ROM to crash during multiball, forcing you to quit.

He's very clear that he experienced stuttering, so any attempt to suggest otherwise is simply nitpicking his words.

 

[smbhax]

He's very clear that he experienced stuttering, so any attempt to suggest otherwise is simply nitpicking his words.

He said "stutter and freeze"; what you described was occasional dips down to 30 fps or so, whereas "freeze" to me sounds more like the framerate halting entirely for a half-second or more. Granted that is open to interpretation, still they sounded to me like rather different extremes; if I was a QA person trying to replicate this, I would be asking well wait do you mean subtle drops in framerate that a lot of people wouldn't even notice, or do you mean momentary hitches and freeze-ups?

 

[Gord Lacey]

What happens if you capture this video using the built-in PS4 capture? Does the capture stutter as well?

 

[Queue]

He said "stutter and freeze"; what you described was occasional dips down to 30 fps or so, whereas "freeze" to me sounds more like the framerate halting entirely for a half-second or more.

I think that you're reading too much into the reviewer's words. The description of "stutter" is fairly straightforward, as you yourself have said at points in this discussion, and so far as I know, there have been no reports of in-game stuttering on the PS4 port besides those in this thread. Therefore, it goes to reason that the stutter which the reviewer experienced is the same stutter that has been unanimously and consistently documented here. Given, his remarks are vague, but he's reviewing a game for a professional website, not brainstorming on an internet forum about the causes of various bugs.

What happens if you capture this video using the built-in PS4 capture? Does the capture stutter as well?

No. The PS4 records at 30 frames per second, so the stutter isn't captured on video. Two people have already attempted to record it without success.

 

[smbhax]

The description of "stutter" is fairly straightforward, as you yourself have said at points in this discussion

I would have thought so, but obviously it can manifest in at least different degrees, and that could mean there's more than one issue here. Even in this thread, while you talked about the stutter being subtle, it was so pronounced for at least one person that it caused them to lose balls on a regular basis; and then there's this reviewer, who describes what he saw as a "freeze." One person's issue went away after switching to 720p or reinstalling, and another person's didn't. You also said that this "stutter" was unlike any other framerate stutter you'd seen before, ie, according to you, it *isn't* the same as other stutters. They could all be the same thing, but the descriptions have not been all that consistent, and it isn't clear that we can assume that they're all the same issue. The differences might be significant.

Also, nobody has yet bothered to include video with descriptions showing where and when it takes place, which would at least be something definite to go on.

Also, this issue really does need its own thread; it's difficult to piece together here among the other bugs, and the other bugs are rather getting drowned out. FarSight has already looked at it and been unable to reproduce it, so I think it needs its own thread where further evidence and discussion can build up until we have something more definitive for them, rather than spamming them with discussion of an issue they can't do anything with yet. I'd start the thread myself but I haven't actually experienced the issue so that would be weird.

 

[Queue]

They could all be the same thing, but the descriptions have not been all that consistent, and it isn't clear that we can assume that they're all the same issue. The differences might be significant.

I think that you're very wrong about this. For an issue that is strictly visual in nature, and thus highly subjective in terms of individual perception, the reports have been fairly consistent. As I keep saying over and over and over again, I have personally witnessed the stutter that I describe on two separate PS4s, which are from two completely different manufacturing batches, and the effect is the same. The statistical odds alone strongly go against it being the manifestation of a hardware defect. If my friend were to post a description of the stutter, though, the odds are that his description would vary from my own, because, again, he's a completely different person with a unique pair of eyes. Expecting human beings to report a visual anomaly in an identical manner, as if they were robots, is an unreasonable demand. It's the same reason that eyewitness accounts are often considered unreliable in court cases.

FarSight has already looked at it and been unable to reproduce it, so I think it needs its own thread where further evidence and discussion can build up until we have something more definitive for them, rather than spamming them with discussion of an issue they can't do anything with yet.

The only reason that the discussion regarding the issue in question has gone far beyond the lengths necessary is solely because a couple of forum members, who claim not to be affected by this problem and thus have very little reason to comment upon it, have taken it upon themselves to perpetually rebut everything that the affected users say. Infinite hypotheticals can be made about the stutter, because not a single one of us knows what is responsible, and endlessly postulating about statistically unlikely odds, such as hardware defects, is incredibly unhelpful to the troubleshooting of said bug. It's fine to make a brief comment that you don't appear to be experiencing this problem, but beyond that, assuming you truly aren't affected, there isn't much more for you to contribute.

I would make a separate thread specifically for the stutter, but it is my impression that discussion of this topic has been exhausted to its limits. Therefore, I politely request that it cease until someone has new and relevant information to share.

 

[brakel]

Although Queue keeps saying that this is the only game on the PS4 that has been reported to have video stutter or jitter, I have found that most games on the PS4 have been reported to have such visual artifacts and I've personally experienced it myself while playing Madden.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...xed-and-whats-not-in-the-cod-ghosts-ps4-patch

One of the main issues surrounding the PS4 version of Call of Duty: Ghosts is the somewhat erratic frame-rate reported by reviewers. On playing the unpatched version of the PS4 code for the first time, the difference in smoothness between the mostly solid 60fps of the 360 game and the more inconsistent PS4 release is quite obvious - in many scenes we see the appearance of judder and what appears to be slowdown on the PS4, perhaps surprisingly in areas where performance isn't impacted upon in either the PS3 or 360 versions.

There are many more reports like that. Then I found this one and things got more interesting. I'm not saying that he's for sure correct but it could explain why some have the problem and others don't. It even explains why a defrag might help.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/691087-playstation-4/67996492

notice how your games stutter and have tons of pop-in etc.? no, you are not being picky, it's a real problem. you ask others or watch live streams and you do not notice it and others tell you they have no problems? (it's hard to tell stuttering in live streams but you can notice pop-in) well, that's because sony pulled ANOTHER 3DO (read at the end if you care about that part).

I BOLDED THE PART HOW TO FIX IT IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO READ A BOOK

it seems some ps4s come with segagate and some come with HGST. HGST is utter crap. western digital bought their company for pennies. they are like owning a second hand western digital drive and guess what? western digital still can not complete with other laptop hdd makers performance wise. only in the desktop range they are king.

so yeah, what you have is a game running completely different on two different ps4s. remember the ps2 slim that could not play certain ps2 games? remember the ps3 super slim (the worst built console revision EVER) that just ran games like ass compared to the phat or original slim? that is what i mean by they pulled another 3DO. google 3DO history.

while the concept of using your own hdd with the ps3 and ps4 seems cool, people forget one thing: what are the devkits using? they are using desktop hdds yes, however, they only use a certain maker. when it comes time to QA they bring out a laptop hdd that the end user gets with their system. will they take the time and optimize their game for the millions of different hdds out there? NO if you go by what you see with the ps4 so far and the ps3.

for the tech knowledgeable like me and i hope others here? will know what i'm talking about and what kind of performance hit you see in games, not just loading. why do you think ms did not let you use your own hdd last gen? it was just not out of pure greed.. with the one they promised you could use your own hdd yet we find it's even more limited then the 360. ms went with seagate last gen and this gen they went with samsung hdd. a very nice one. you can not even replace the hdd without voiding your warranty on the one. why would ms do this? because all games run off the hdd now. this insures all xbox ones play the game the same exact way.

short version: open up your ps4 and if it is a seagate you are good to go. if you have a HGST in there replace it with anything that's not western digital or HGST. no need to thank me.

I still think it is entirely possible that this is a game bug but we shouldn't close ourselves down to the possibility that it is something else. Flipper lag on the PS3 turned out to be a grab bag of issues and only months of discussion (and yes argument) brought out all of the sources.

If Queue wants to step away from the discussion for a while then I totally respect that but we shouldn't stop the discussion. I agree that it would make sense to move all the video stutter/jitter/frame rate discussion to achieve dedicated thread.

 

[Queue]

Although Queue keeps saying that this is the only game on the PS4 that has been reported to have video stutter or jitter

I never said this. What I did say is that TPA is the only PS4 game that I've played which has random, albeit brief, frame rate stutter. Killzone has plenty of drops in frames, but they're consistent and make sense. In Killzone, the frame rate is 60 frames a second during corridor segments, but it drops to the 30-40s in large, open areas. That is standard frames-per-second behavior for a graphically intensive game like Killzone, and the developers also made a public statement before the game was released that the single-player campaign would be targeted for an average of 30 frames a second.

TPA, on the contrary, is advertised to run at a constant 60 frames per second on the PS4, but for users like my friend and me, the frame rate occasionally dips below 60 frames a second, with no apparent cause. There is no consistency to the frame rate drops. TPA is not a resource-demanding game for the PS4, and the frame rate drops behave more like a software bug than a hardware limitation.

I still think it is entirely possible that this is a game bug but we shouldn't close ourselves down to the possibility that it is something else.

I really hate having to repeat myself, but the frame rate stutter/jitter that I encounter in TPA does not happen in any other game. If this were a hardware defect with the hard drive or the APU, it would almost certainly manifest in other games with similar unprecedented frame rate stuttering and/or graphical artifacts.

I don't have a limited stuttering edition PS4. I don't have a custom alpha version of TPA. I have a properly functioning PS4, a properly functioning display, and, to the best of my knowledge, I have the same version of TPA installed to my hard drive that every other PS4 owner has. Every indication points to this being a software problem with this particular game, and not a single person on this thread has offered any evidence to the contrary, other than to repeatedly insist that the game runs flawlessly on their end — which is totally irrelevant, anyway, since things like flawlessness and perfection are more often subjective than not.

I'm not about to rip out my PS4's hard drive and possibly destroy it by unnecessarily reformatting when there is zilch, nil, zero evidence that my hardware has anything to do with this. If somebody else wants to be a guinea pig for the indiscriminate theories of people on the internet, they can go right ahead, but I'm not going to risk destroying $400 worth of hardware just to prove to a couple of forum posters that my hardware isn't defective.

If you guys want to continue talking about the stutter, I can't stop you, but from what I can see, this discussion has been reduced to little more than a he-said, she-said finger-pointing contest. I have to bow out for my own sanity. Getting this worked up over a video game is silly.

 

[Baintz]

Has no one else experienced the Star Trek glitch where the view gets stuck in Plunger Cam at the start of Final Frontier? It happens to me nearly every time so I'm surprised it hasn't been brought up yet.

A quick look at the Star Trek subforum shows that it was reported on other platforms over a year ago. Has it been fixed in other versions? It's massively annoying and has a big impact on scoring potential.

 

[TimRex]

In my experience of frame rate issues (in general), if there is no *obvious* in-game cause of dropped frames, then it pays to consider options outside of the in-game experience. Discounting any hardware differences, and ignoring wether some people do or don't experience these issues, it's certainly possible that the underlying OS could be partly attributable to these random drops in performance. I could take wild stabs in the dark about exactly why this behaviour occurs (streaming/recording overhead? paging out? buffering? resource management?).. I could also take wild guesses about how FarSight could counter such issues.. But if this is simply a resource/timing issue, it could just as easily be an issue that is resolved or alleviated by a firmware update.

The problem with this scenario is that it's incredibly hard to know if it's the OS or the program code if it can't be reproduced and analysed on a debug unit. Worse still if it can be reproduced on a retail unit and *not* on a debug unit.

It seems there are instances of other games having framerate issues, and while they are (in most part) attributable to periods of high activity - I'm sure there are also instances of low activity where random frame-skips occur. Hell, just try scrolling through the PS4's own UI and you'll get plenty enough frameskip (though I admit, these are more attributable to being poorly coded and dependent on network throughput than any real performance issue)

Something interesting I read about CoD was the issue of too "high" a frame rate causing problems that can easily be perceived as frame loss..

Well, a close look at our captures reveals that Call of Duty: Ghosts actually runs at higher frame-rates than 60fps on a fairly frequent basis, despite the video output being limited to 60Hz. In scenes where we experienced judder and perceived frame-rate loss, what we are actually seeing is the appearance of skipped and incomplete frames - an effect that is arguably far more noticeable than a few prolonged drops down to 50fps or so seen the 360 version of the game.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-whats-fixed-and-whats-not-in-the-cod-ghosts-ps4-patch



I won't pretend to know exactly what the issue is, but I hope the above may provide food for thought.

 

[brakel]

I don't really understand why you take discussion about this subject so personally Queue. Discussion is good. Discussion is how many problems get resolved. The more discussion there is on this subject the more likely it is that FarSight will look at it more. The more potential causes of the problem that we can eliminate the more likely it will seem that it is a problem with the game code. You repeating that this problem couldn't be anything but a game bug and that you refuse to discuss any other possible cause is very frustrating to those of us who would like the problem to be resolved no matter what the cause. You keep saying that you're done discussing this but you keep coming back. May I ask that if you do feel the need to keep contributing to this discussion that you keep your posts constructive?

 

[Queue]

But if this is simply a resource/timing issue, it could just as easily be an issue that is resolved or alleviated by a firmware update.

I actually completely agree with you. I'm very open to this being a problem with the way TPA integrates with the UI, whether that be the way in which it downloads updates or something else. It could very well be a conflict with the PS4 operating system, but again, that would be a software problem, not a hardware problem. I just don't see any evidence at this time that points to this being the result of defective hardware. There are simply too many other likely scenarios to consider before taking the "your PS4 is broken, LULZ!" route.

You keep saying that you're done discussing this but you keep coming back. May I ask that if you do feel the need to keep contributing to this discussion that you keep your posts constructive?

This is exactly the type of finger-pointing I was talking about. My posts have been plenty constructive, but if you want to keep on with the statistically unlikely odds that a bunch of different PS4s throughout the world, from different batches and different manufacturing plants, have an identical hardware defect that manifests exclusively on this game, then there isn't much more for me to contribute. Good luck with that.