PS3 Pinball Arcade in 3D

[spoonman]

3D would be nice but not necessary. 3D in Zen Pinball 2 is impressive to look at for the first few minutes but after a while I become so engrossed in the game that I stop noticing the 3D effect.

That's just a sign of good 3D.
After a while you should just notice how great everything looks and not be so focused on the 3D wow factor.

 

[cheezr]

That's just a sign of good 3D.
After a while you should just notice how great everything looks and not be so focused on the 3D wow factor.

But wow factor is all 3D has going for it. It's not like it's a tool that helps me be better at pinball.

Pinball requires a lot of concentration in racking up scores so it's easy to become so engaged in the gameplay that you stop noticing the 3D.

 

[J2fold]

But wow factor is all 3D has going for it. It's not like it's a tool that helps me be better at pinball.

Pinball requires a lot of concentration in racking up scores so it's easy to become so engaged in the gameplay that you stop noticing the 3D.

Are you serious? Wow, and someone just ask where in this thread does it say 3D is useless. BTW If you do not like 3D then it wont be for you, it will be for the rest of us.

 

[brakel]

Are you serious? Wow, and someone just ask where in this thread does it say 3D is useless. BTW If you do not like 3D then it wont be for you, it will be for the rest of us.

Well NOW it does... and by someone with 2 posts. Apparently he joined to slam 3D!

 

[cheezr]

Read my posts with more scrutiny. I am not slamming 3D. I'm just saying not everything is a perfect fit for 3D. I really enjoy 3D in movies and in other games like Shadow of the Colossus.

It would be nice to have 3D in Pinball Arcade but it's not a must have feature for me due to the nature of the game. I'd probably only enable it for 1-2 hours and then never use it again like I did for Zen Pinball 2.

 

[spoonman]

Read my posts with more scrutiny. I am not slamming 3D. I'm just saying not everything is a perfect fit for 3D. I really enjoy 3D in movies and in other games like Shadow of the Colossus.

It would be nice to have 3D in Pinball Arcade but it's not a must have feature for me due to the nature of the game. I'd probably only enable it for 1-2 hours and then never use it again like I did for Zen Pinball 2.

Really? You "really enjoyed" the 3D in Shadow of the Colossus, but you stopped noticing it in Zen Pinball? I have to call BS (no offense..heh)

Let me first say that I love SOTC...LOVE!.. but it's obvious the 3D was tacked on as an afterthought. It's one of the weaker 3D games period.
If you want a "wow factor" for a 3D games you would be doing yourself a favor to try one of the top 5 I listed above:
1. Zen Pinball 2
2. Super StarDust HD (The stars fly out of the screen!!)
3. MotorStorm Apocalypse
4. Gran Turismo 5
5. Uncharted 3

I take tell you personally, Super Stardust HD makes a believer out of anyone who think 3D is a fad.

 

[cheezr]

I have played all those games in 3D except for GT5. I am a big fan of 3D, I hope you don't think otherwise. I just don't think 3D is a good fit for certain things.

I found the 3D in SOTC and Ico to be really good. The 3D melds with the gameplay, I never felt like the 3D and gameplay were fighting against each other for my full attention. And all of this at full 720p@30fps with no reduced or missing effects(unlike some other console games that have to sacrifice a significant amount of visual fidelity when running in 3D mode).

No one here is saying 3D is a fad. But it's also not the success it was hoped to be.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...the-decline-of-3d-and-the-threat-of-the-wii-u
http://www.destructoid.com/iwata-3d-not-quite-as-popular-as-it-once-was-231211.phtml
http://news.techeye.net/hardware/sony-admits-3d-failing

 

[SKILL_SHOT]

Need a converter thats half the price of a HDTV that intercepts the signal and turns it 3D....Im not sure if that could be done but it would sell like hot cakes! About the size of a cable box.

 

[SKILL_SHOT]

guess I should have googeld that thought first idiot

 

[spoonman]

guess I should have googeld that thought first idiot

Hehe Skill

Honestly though, those convertors don't any justice to 3D. It does about as well as you would think for an automated system.
I would be curious how it would handle "3D-izing" a pinball table. What layers would it select to add depth or pop-out 3D would be interesting.

Nothing would be having the dev do it correctly and with care.

 

[flynnz]

But wow factor is all 3D has going for it. It's not like it's a tool that helps me be better at pinball.

Pinball requires a lot of concentration in racking up scores so it's easy to become so engaged in the gameplay that you stop noticing the 3D.

I disagree with this. When going from playing our real pinball machine to the "flat" virtual tables on TPA, I notice it is much harder to "see" items on the table as they all appear to be on top of each other in a mess of convolution. When playing Zen 2, I can see everything much clearer and separately simply because of the nature of 3D. To me this goes beyond just the wow factor and has a practical use. Also saying something like "It's not like it's a tool that helps me be better at pinball", is a pretty weak statement imo. Simply because you can say that about many things such as stereo sound, playing in color, having back glass art, glow effects, reflections etc etc. Anything that can make a virtual pinball table feel more real, to me, should be explored and if possible added. Like I said in the above post, since 3D is not all that complicated or development heavy to implement, there is no reason it shouldn't be added. And since a 3D feature will ALWAYS be optional and is so easy to add in devleopment, there is no reason anyone should be championing against 3D being added to TPA.

 

[brakel]

I disagree with this. When going from playing our real pinball machine to the "flat" virtual tables on TPA, I notice it is much harder to "see" items on the table as they all appear to be on top of each other in a mess of convolution. When playing Zen 2, I can see everything much clearer and separately simply because of the nature of 3D. To me this goes beyond just the wow factor and has a practical use. Also saying something like "It's not like it's a tool that helps me be better at pinball", is a pretty weak statement imo. Simply because you can say that about many things such as stereo sound, playing in color, having back glass art, glow effects, reflections etc etc. Anything that can make a virtual pinball table feel more real, to me, should be explored and if possible added. Like I said in the above post, since 3D is not all that complicated or development heavy to implement, there is no reason it shouldn't be added. And since a 3D feature will ALWAYS be optional and is so easy to add in devleopment, there is no reason anyone should be championing against 3D being added to TPA.

As an example, in NGG there is that scoop ramp in the middle of the field that comes down after you go through the left ramp. Now I know what it is but in PHoF, I could not figure out what that was until I watched someone else play. In 2D I did not get that it was dropping down. I thought it was sliding. In 3D these things would be more obvious.

 

[J2fold]

I disagree with this. When going from playing our real pinball machine to the "flat" virtual tables on TPA, I notice it is much harder to "see" items on the table as they all appear to be on top of each other in a mess of convolution. When playing Zen 2, I can see everything much clearer and separately simply because of the nature of 3D. To me this goes beyond just the wow factor and has a practical use. Also saying something like "It's not like it's a tool that helps me be better at pinball", is a pretty weak statement imo. Simply because you can say that about many things such as stereo sound, playing in color, having back glass art, glow effects, reflections etc etc. Anything that can make a virtual pinball table feel more real, to me, should be explored and if possible added. Like I said in the above post, since 3D is not all that complicated or development heavy to implement, there is no reason it shouldn't be added. And since a 3D feature will ALWAYS be optional and is so easy to add in devleopment, there is no reason anyone should be championing against 3D being added to TPA.

This is my thinking as well. You do not have to like 3D, but there is no reason to be against it. 3D is like an extra tool in your tool box. I rather have it and not need it then need it and not have it.

 

[cheezr]

I disagree with this. When going from playing our real pinball machine to the "flat" virtual tables on TPA, I notice it is much harder to "see" items on the table as they all appear to be on top of each other in a mess of convolution. When playing Zen 2, I can see everything much clearer and separately simply because of the nature of 3D. To me this goes beyond just the wow factor and has a practical use. Also saying something like "It's not like it's a tool that helps me be better at pinball", is a pretty weak statement imo. Simply because you can say that about many things such as stereo sound, playing in color, having back glass art, glow effects, reflections etc etc. Anything that can make a virtual pinball table feel more real, to me, should be explored and if possible added. Like I said in the above post, since 3D is not all that complicated or development heavy to implement, there is no reason it shouldn't be added. And since a 3D feature will ALWAYS be optional and is so easy to add in devleopment, there is no reason anyone should be championing against 3D being added to TPA.

I have never had trouble distinguishing anything on the playfield in any pinball videogame. To me 3D is just for eye candy. But if you feel like it helps you be a better gamer then all the more power to you.

BTW, if you had read all my posts I am not saying I am against 3D being added to Pinball Arcade. I just said it wasn't a must have feature for me in this type of game and I explained why. I never tried to impose my views on anyone.

 

[flynnz]

I have never had trouble distinguishing anything on the playfield in any pinball videogame. To me 3D is just for eye candy. But if you feel like it helps you be a better gamer then all the more power to you.

BTW, if you had read all my posts I am not saying I am against 3D being added to Pinball Arcade. I just said it wasn't a must have feature for me in this type of game and I explained why. I never tried to impose my views on anyone.

Oh, please understand that I wasn't trying to imply that you yourself were against 3D being added, I was just trailing off to say there is no reason not to have it and in general people would have to be pretty ignorant to not want it added.

Also understand that not everyone sees 3D the same. Not only your own perception may differ, but the equipment you use could also be a huge factor. If you don't notice that it is easier to see objects more "separately" this could very well be the reason why. So for you, it may be simply a "wow" factor, but for many others (like myself) it may be more than that. With that being said, of course 3D is not for everyone, but I hope the one thing we can all agree on is that having the effect implemented does not affect those who don't want it in any way shape or form.

 

[brakel]

A couple more thoughts on 3D in TPA. I do some 3D photography and frequent a 3D photography forum. We were talking about 3D in the game Black Ops 2 and I mentioned that I thought it was strange that the whole game and all mode were in 3D but none of the cut scenes were. One of the stereoscopic gurus on there that works in the commercial film industry explained that any game that is made from 3D models and can be played from multiple angles, can very easily be displayed in 3D. But the cut scenes are pre-rendered and they would actually have to go back and render another perspective. Its a first person shooter so you are the camera in the game. The game then renders another view just slightly offset from your own to create the stereoscopic view, then the game cuts the frame rate in half in order to accommodate the new view and outputs to 3D on your tv.

Since TPA has multiple camera views they can just create a stereoscopic view for each existing camera view and they'd have the information to display 3D. The menus would remain in 2D. They would probably have to cut the frame rate in half. It would be probably the easiest upgrade that they could do to the game.

That would also give them the ability to offer simultaneous view. This view is in 2D but would give people the ability to play a two person game simultaneously as if you were playing the same pinball table right next to each other. This mode is really great for racing games so that each person can have their own full screen view of just their car in the race, but I think it could be fun in pinball also.

Has anyone played TPA in 2D to 3D mode on a 3D tv? I tried that out this weekend. I only had time to play Gofers and Arabian Nights. It worked really well on NGG. The ramps really popped up and the whole layout of the table was enhanced. TotAN was a hilarious acid trip! The 3D conversion algorithm worked great on the ramps and ok on the genie. The magic lamp wound up looking kind of like it was 2D and painted onto the play field. But the play field was a trip. It made the lights on the play field on the same plane as the ball. But the play field art was rendered on a plane about 2 inches below the ball and the pkay field lights. It was as if the play field was actually glass with lights inside of the glass and the play field art was actually a 3D diarama set below the glass. It was so trippy that I laughed the entire time I was playing it!

Anyway, real 3D rendering would look sweet in TPA. I think to get it we would need to be willing to pay for a 3D DLC that would unlock 3D on all tables, future and present. You'd still need to buy the tables, of course. I'd be willing to buy 3D in TPA for $10.

 

[spoonman]

A couple more thoughts on 3D in TPA. I do some 3D photography and frequent a 3D photography forum. We were talking about 3D in the game Black Ops 2 and I mentioned that I thought it was strange that the whole game and all mode were in 3D but none of the cut scenes were. One of the stereoscopic gurus on there that works in the commercial film industry explained that any game that is made from 3D models and can be played from multiple angles, can very easily be displayed in 3D. But the cut scenes are pre-rendered and they would actually have to go back and render another perspective. Its a first person shooter so you are the camera in the game. The game then renders another view just slightly offset from your own to create the stereoscopic view, then the game cuts the frame rate in half in order to accommodate the new view and outputs to 3D on your tv.

Since TPA has multiple camera views they can just create a stereoscopic view for each existing camera view and they'd have the information to display 3D. The menus would remain in 2D. They would probably have to cut the frame rate in half. It would be probably the easiest upgrade that they could do to the game.

That would also give them the ability to offer simultaneous view. This view is in 2D but would give people the ability to play a two person game simultaneously as if you were playing the same pinball table right next to each other. This mode is really great for racing games so that each person can have their own full screen view of just their car in the race, but I think it could be fun in pinball also.

Has anyone played TPA in 2D to 3D mode on a 3D tv? I tried that out this weekend. I only had time to play Gofers and Arabian Nights. It worked really well on NGG. The ramps really popped up and the whole layout of the table was enhanced. TotAN was a hilarious acid trip! The 3D conversion algorithm worked great on the ramps and ok on the genie. The magic lamp wound up looking kind of like it was 2D and painted onto the play field. But the play field was a trip. It made the lights on the play field on the same plane as the ball. But the play field art was rendered on a plane about 2 inches below the ball and the pkay field lights. It was as if the play field was actually glass with lights inside of the glass and the play field art was actually a 3D diarama set below the glass. It was so trippy that I laughed the entire time I was playing it!

Anyway, real 3D rendering would look sweet in TPA. I think to get it we would need to be willing to pay for a 3D DLC that would unlock 3D on all tables, future and present. You'd still need to buy the tables, of course. I'd be willing to buy 3D in TPA for $10.

Cool insight there Brakel.

I would love to see Pinball Arcade in 3D, but I would hope they could include this option without cutting the frame rate and without charging extra $.
Zen 2 added stereoscopic 3D and I know of people who bought it just because of that.

It shows they know their stuff and are giving the players added value. I think that alone can help a product stand out.
Not to mention Sony would also add this to their 3D games section on the PSN Store, currently not an overly saturated area either!

 

[SKILL_SHOT]

Get a SONY HMZ-T1 it makes 2D look 3D and the BEST 3D available. I tried with GT5 but couldn't get 3D to work but it still looked 3D!

 

[brakel]

Cool insight there Brakel.

I would love to see Pinball Arcade in 3D, but I would hope they could include this option without cutting the frame rate and without charging extra $.
Zen 2 added stereoscopic 3D and I know of people who bought it just because of that.

It shows they know their stuff and are giving the players added value. I think that alone can help a product stand out.
Not to mention Sony would also add this to their 3D games section on the PSN Store, currently not an overly saturated area either!

The new Playstation store seemed to have gotten rid of the 3D section. Or they've hidden it really well!

 

[spoonman]

The new Playstation store seemed to have gotten rid of the 3D section. Or they've hidden it really well!

Unfortunately everything is hidden and screwy on the new store, but it's under the Filters option now.