PS3 Pinball Arcade in 3D

[Kratos3]

Spoonman is your Sony tv 200Hz refresh rate? For proper 3D video you need a TV that has at least 200Hz refrash rate. Only at that frequency you will find that the eyes dont get tired as much. I got also other two LED TVs from Sony at 100Hz and cannot watch them for more then 20-30 minutes but with the other one at 200 I played even for 2 hours straight and didnt have any problems. I played FX2 of course.. Make a huge difference on your eyes.

It has more to do with active shutter 3D, IMO.

 

[spoonman]

Spoonman is your Sony tv 200Hz refresh rate? For proper 3D video you need a TV that has at least 200Hz refrash rate. Only at that frequency you will find that the eyes dont get tired as much. I got also other two LED TVs from Sony at 100Hz and cannot watch them for more then 20-30 minutes but with the other one at 200 I played even for 2 hours straight and didnt have any problems. I played FX2 of course.. Make a huge difference on your eyes.

Yep, it's 240hz.

More info

 

[spoonman]

So, who is excited about the "Super Patch" on April 1st.
It's nice to know stereoscopic 3D will finally be coming out.

I bought a new pair of 3D glasses in preparation.

 

[brakel]

I actually just upgraded the main screen to 3D. Before if I wanted to play or watch 3D in the home theater I'd have to roll in the smaller LCD TV that was 3D. The new TV is so much better and bigger and in 3D. Looking forward to the update!

 

[Byte]

Don't have a 3D TV yet but one can only hope that at one point TPA will support things like Oculus Rift on the PC and Project Morpheus on the PS4; THAT will be a major step forward vis-a-vis pre-selected camera angles.

 

[crazyflipperfingers]

Don't have a 3D TV yet but one can only hope that at one point TPA will support things like Oculus Rift on the PC and Project Morpheus on the PS4; THAT will be a major step forward vis-a-vis pre-selected camera angles.

re: Virtual Reality: I've posted on this before (and there was a thread) and the response was an overwhelming "meh". I'm beginning to see a pattern in the coverage of VR, those who've tried it (me included) are total believers and can see an awesome future. Those who haven't tried it are dismissing it out of hand. TPA is a perfect application of this new tech. Imagine being able to fully walk around the machine and see the playfield from any angle! It will be amazing if Farsight supports it.

 

[LeRoy3rd]

The problem right now with dev kit 1 is motion blur and resolution... The blurring of the pixels would make it almost unplayable, and the low resolution would make looking around the table fairly useless (not to mention it only currently tracks rotational axis, not translational movement). The rift Dev Kit 2 comes out in July, and that should solve many of these problems, but it's not even worth thinking about implementing it with the current state of the technology.

 

[Byte]

Implementing is only the final phase in this project.

The first phase is that FS decides that this may be the next evolutionary step into preserving the pinball experience. This relates to the Virtual Reality implementation, visuals, haptic feedback gloves, etc. An intermediary step would be 3D TV support with shutter glasses that track your head movement, e.g. when you lean left and tilt your head a little, the video on the screen changes accordingly. Or you lean forward a bit to see the upper flippers on Black Knight.

Once it is decided that this is indeed technology that furthers the Mission, there will first be 1-2 years (the first few months just becoming familiar with the tech) of testing, coding, further testing, starting from scratch, etc. until there's a working prototype implementation. Like LeRoy3rd indicated, if there is only rotational axis tracking right now, that's where you start, adding dimensions as they become available. This allows for an evolutionary type of development, learning as you go. During this time, the technology matures, becomes cheaper, and becomes more mainstream, especially when you have glasses that can be paired with mobile devices, getting it out of the Gaming-PC/Current-gen Console segment. This is not far-fetched. Just think 3rd Gen Google Glass with a gaming mode where the lenses become opaque.

Once beta-testing is over, it's time for public roll-out, and at that time the installed base will be there.

It may be a riskier approach, but beats starting development when Zen Studios is already rolling out Zen PinballVR

 

[spoonman]

After seeing more about Morpheus on the PS4... I think I'll skip stereoscopic 3D.
This stuff is really exciting.
http://digitalpinballfans.com/showthread.php/7574-Project-Morpheous-Support

 

[spoonman]

OK, so the "Super Patch" is now live (in the US), but I'm Having some issues with the stereoscopic 3D.

I've only had enough time to try out Attack From Mars.
The problem I am experiencing is the 3D separation seems way too far apart. This is causing severe ghosting and double vision.

I checked Zen Pinball with 3D turned on again to make sure there wasn't something wrong with either my glasses or PlayStation 3D Display, but it looked perfect to me.

Hopefully you guys can chime in with your experience with this.

I also hope once Farsight gets this sorted out they can add a 3D strength slider and a way to turn it on/off without having to manually quit and restart. I'm not sure how Zen handles it, but it's much faster.

 

[brakel]

OK, so the "Super Patch" is now live (in the US), but I'm Having some issues with the stereoscopic 3D.

I've only had enough time to try out Attack From Mars.
The problem I am experiencing is the 3D separation seems way too far apart. This is causing severe ghosting and double vision.

I checked Zen Pinball with 3D turned on again to make sure there wasn't something wrong with either my glasses or PlayStation 3D Display, but it looked perfect to me.

Hopefully you guys can chime in with your experience with this.

I also hope once Farsight gets this sorted out they can add a 3D strength slider and a way to turn it on/off without having to manually quit and restart. I'm not sure how Zen handles it, but it's much faster.

Hold down the triangle button and then adjust the depth with the right stick. Really awkward adjustment but it works.

Couple of things I've noticed:

1) Crosstalk (ghosting) was bad when I first started it. realized that my TV went to default 3D settings because this is the first time that I used 3D in game mode. Once I adjusted the back light, contrast and brightness on my TV it decreased the appearance of the crosstalk and jaggies I was seeing.

2) The main menu and table select menus are messed up. There's no depth present so if you have depth set then it's hard to look at. There should be depth between the menu items and the background.

3) The "start" button is completely missing in the right eye in the table select menu. Makes looking at that screen harder. I noticed this at the Milwaukee show but when I mentioned that there were menus that didn't look right they said that it was still beta.

4) Wow! These tables look great in 3D! Can't say that enough!!!

5) Bring 3D to the PS4 now please! I don't want to wait a year for it!

 

[spoonman]

Hold down the triangle button and then adjust the depth with the right stick. Really awkward adjustment but it works.

Couple of things I've noticed:

1) Crosstalk (ghosting) was bad when I first started it. realized that my TV went to default 3D settings because this is the first time that I used 3D in game mode. Once I adjusted the back light, contrast and brightness on my TV it decreased the appearance of the crosstalk and jaggies I was seeing.

2) The main menu and table select menus are messed up. There's no depth present so if you have depth set then it's hard to look at. There should be depth between the menu items and the background.

3) The "start" button is completely missing in the right eye in the table select menu. Makes looking at that screen harder. I noticed this at the Milwaukee show but when I mentioned that there were menus that didn't look right they said that it was still beta.

4) Wow! These tables look great in 3D! Can't say that enough!!!

5) Bring 3D to the PS4 now please! I don't want to wait a year for it!

Wow, how the heck did you figure that out?! Hehe

EDIT: I was behind on my other threads

Hey spoonman,

You can adjust stereoscopic settings by holding the Triangle button and using the Left Analog stick to shift the images together or apart, it all depends on how you want to see it.

I'll give that a try. Thanks!

Hopefully the depth adjustment will help enough because it's a pain to adjust the other settings on the PS 3D Display. I already have it tweaked using the Disney WOW BR disc so most games look great on it and don't want to mess it up since it has no way of restoring my original settings.

I agree, we need this on the PS4 also (once it's out of beta of course).

 

[W1LDD ONE]

Looks great in 3D on my Sony 60" tv. No issues here very enjoyable.

 

[spoonman]

Ok, I played it some more and it does look pretty good though I'd have to say Zen Pinball's stereoscopic effect is superior.

Watching the demo for the Plants Vs. Zombies or the Star Wars ROTJ tables you really feel way more depth. You can see layers of depth on those tables, but on TPA it seems to be either in the background or foreground with not much in between.

It could be because Zen's tables were built for 3D from the ground up where as Farsight added it after all of the table rendering had been completed.

Perhaps they can add more layer depth at some point, but I don't see it being a priority.

Anyone else who plays both of these in 3D feel the same?

 

[brakel]

Ok, I played it some more and it does look pretty good though I'd have to say Zen Pinball's stereoscopic effect is superior.

Watching the demo for the Plants Vs. Zombies or the Star Wars ROTJ tables you really feel way more depth. You can see layers of depth on those tables, but on TPA it seems to be either in the background or foreground with not much in between.

It could be because Zen's tables were built for 3D from the ground up where as Farsight added it after all of the table rendering had been completed.

Perhaps they can add more layer depth at some point, but I don't see it being a priority.

Anyone else who plays both of these in 3D feel the same?

FarSight builds the tables in a virtual 3D environment the same way that Zen does. Even though we had to wait for 3D for a long time, the addition of 3D was not a conversion. The 3D information was there all along. FarSight just had to fine tune the perspective and build the menu and adjustment.

I think the difference is that Zen is creating the perspective of an imaginary space and FarSight is making a 3D view of a real space. I thought they did a really good job of making the 3D look real. When looking at most tables the playfield is on one plane and then many of the other elements are on a plane just a couple of inches higher. Real tables have to fit everything under the glass. Zen can be much freer to put table elements on many more planes and create a richer 3D environment.

If you look closely you can see some cool stuff though. On Medieval Madness you can see through the castle gate and into the castle. It's subtle but I get a cool sense of space on some of the little things. Being able to see how steep a ramp is and other things like that really bring me into the realism of the table.

It might also make a difference on size of display and viewing distance. I'm playing on a 65" LCD TV that is about 11 feet away. When I play pinball though I tend to sit on the edge of my chair and lean in bringing me to about 8.5 feet.

 

[joeblow]

I have been looking forward to the 3D option for a long time. The final results so far are disappointing.

I must first say that the 3D effect is AMAZING. One using the deeply low viewpoint close to the flippers, it almost feels like you are really there. I actually see details now for the first time that i never noticed in 2D. Great job all around with the effect.

Unfortunately, I'm feeling flipper lag that is absence when I turn 3D off, and the frame rate dips tremendously in multi-ball. I tested Dr. Dude, Taxi and Theater of Magic, and at least on ToM the frame rate dips sometimes without multiball.

I guess I'll hold out hope for a PS4 upgrade to 3D if FS can't squeeze more performance out of the PS3 to fix this. That's too bad because it does look fantastic. If it was super smooth, I'd play 3D PS3 tables instead of 2D PS4 tables. It is that good.

 

[brakel]

I'm not experiencing any more flipper lag in 3D than when not in 3D. You might want to check if your TV automatically turns on more post processing when 3D is on. I'm playing in game mode when in 3D and in 2D and I'm still hitting early on both because my new TV has much less lag than my old TV in game mode.

I haven't experienced any slow downs but it doesn't surprise me. There were slow downs before 3D was added.

I played some more during my lunch break today and have noticed a few 3D glitches. So far nothing on the tables themselves. I'm going to compile a list of 3D issues after dinner today so FarSight has an idea of what the issues are.

 

[spoonman]

FarSight builds the tables in a virtual 3D environment the same way that Zen does. Even though we had to wait for 3D for a long time, the addition of 3D was not a conversion. The 3D information was there all along. FarSight just had to fine tune the perspective and build the menu and adjustment.

I think the difference is that Zen is creating the perspective of an imaginary space and FarSight is making a 3D view of a real space. I thought they did a really good job of making the 3D look real. When looking at most tables the playfield is on one plane and then many of the other elements are on a plane just a couple of inches higher. Real tables have to fit everything under the glass. Zen can be much freer to put table elements on many more planes and create a richer 3D environment.

If you look closely you can see some cool stuff though. On Medieval Madness you can see through the castle gate and into the castle. It's subtle but I get a cool sense of space on some of the little things. Being able to see how steep a ramp is and other things like that really bring me into the realism of the table.

It might also make a difference on size of display and viewing distance. I'm playing on a 65" LCD TV that is about 11 feet away. When I play pinball though I tend to sit on the edge of my chair and lean in bringing me to about 8.5 feet.

I'll give it another try, but the few tables I tried didn't seem worth the loss in resolution for the effect.

I tried it on my 55" Samsung 3DTV from about 5 feet away (we have a small living room) band from about a foot away from the 22" PlayStation 3D Display. I enjoy the 3D effect more on the 22" from a close distance. The 3D pop out effect is more pronounced when I am closer.

I think it comes down to Zen having smoother graphics. The jaggies can lessen the effect.

I'm really more looking forward to 3D on the PS4 version where they should be able to keep it at 1080p/60fps/3D.

 

[brakel]

I'll give it another try, but the few tables I tried didn't seem worth the loss in resolution for the effect.

I tried it on my 55" Samsung 3DTV from about 5 feet away (we have a small living room) band from about a foot away from the 22" PlayStation 3D Display. I enjoy the 3D effect more on the 22" from a close distance. The 3D pop out effect is more pronounced when I am closer.

I think it comes down to Zen having smoother graphics. The jaggies can lessen the effect.

I'm really more looking forward to 3D on the PS4 version where they should be able to keep it at 1080p/60fps/3D.

I agree that it has flaws but aside from the glitches its on par with other PS3 3D games.

 

[joeblow]

I'll double check my TV settings (which was on Game mode), but I am 1/4th of a second or so off my shots in 3D mode, so something is wrong. I had been playing Taxi on the PS4 and put up 25 million because of precise aiming, and my shots missed nearly every time on 3D PS3 using the same flipper timing.

As for the frame rate drops, before it was barely noticeable. In 3D multiball, the fps crawls into the teens, easily and frequently. It has never been that bad on any TPA table I've played on PC/PS4/PS3/Vita.