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Welcome Back to Digital Pinball Fans - please read this first
ST:TNG Kickstarter is (now complete)!
- Thread starter Pinballwiz45b
- Start date
JoshuaKadmon
New member
- Aug 12, 2012
- 360
- 0
I would put good money on the next licensed pursuits being The Addams Family and Indiana Jones: The Pinball Adventure, since they're practically the only Top 10 licenses left. Addams may have only cost £11,000, but Indiana Jones would probably cost a lot more, especially since Lucas is still making movies in the franchise (**cough**). Another possibility would be Scared Stiff, as the Elvira license couldn't cost any more than that, but it usually resides just outside of the Top 10 anywhere you look.
But considering it was quoted in pounds (£), I'm going to go out on a limb and say Doctor Who. Everyone, including myself, claimed that DW would be too difficult because of the doctors' estates having to give permission, but a licensing expo could curtail some of the trickier parts of the licensing and give FarSight a chance at picking up an IP that we all thought was impossible.
At any rate, I'm glad to see the kickstarter going so well. Almost half-way there in less than 24 hours?! Impressive...
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Pinballwiz45b
Well-known member
- Aug 12, 2012
- 3,678
- 33
- Thread starter
- #63
Congrats to Farsight: we reached $20,000 in 2 days! Keep it up!
JoshuaKadmon
New member
- Aug 12, 2012
- 360
- 0
This has got to be the most unique video game project I've seen in decades. It spans both video gaming and pinball, two mediums that have often been at odds with one another and notoriously incompatible despite similar fanbases. Players have successfully funded the more financially challenging parts of the whole thing, shelling out thousands (and foreseeably hundreds of thousands) of their own money. It is both a historically significant venture for preserving pinball digitally and unique in its ability to recreate the pinball experience far beyond that of other video games, most of which I detest. Gamers have a close relationship with development, even directly influencing the content and performance of the updated releases. It is also the most accessible, both for the casual gaming aspects of pinball that may lead to obsessive mastery and for its availability on every conceivable platform, none of which can be outdated by a generation switch in coming years. And in reference to the most recent kickstarter, it proves that the most legendary IPs CAN actually coexist under one roof, though no company before has been bold enough to jump through the hoops that would make it possible.
I can actually say I'm proud to be a part of this, both as a gamer and as a pinhead.
I can actually say I'm proud to be a part of this, both as a gamer and as a pinhead.
Just Some Guy
New member
- Jun 18, 2012
- 61
- 0
They got my money for the Twilight Zone table, but launching another Kickstarter project this soon seems to be in poor taste.
The last few releases on iOS have had some serious bugs—to the point where many tables were completely unplayable—and there are many outstanding issues that impact gameplay.
They have our money for Twilight Zone, but we don’t have the table yet—I understand that it takes time to work into their schedule and actually build the table (I think they said November?) but I don’t think they should have launched this new Kickstarter until the old one was completed and we had at least seen the results from it, and what state The Pinball Arcade was in at that stage. If they haven’t fixed most of the outstanding bugs by then, I don’t know that I would want to continue supporting the project.
And frankly, I have zero interest in the Star Trek license, so I’m not willing to pay $10 for the table—I will certainly purchase it if the Kickstarter is successful though.
I thought this with Twilight Zone as well, but it also seems unfair that Kickstarter backers—the people that should be rewarded for making this happen—have to pay $10 for the table, yet if it’s successful, anyone else will only need to pay half that. I think that the $10 starting tier should be the first one that at least gives some sort of bonus like the TNG Pinball to use on all tables. (actually, I think it’s quite shocking that you need to pay $50 to get access to the table operator’s menu)
Is it really that the license is $30,000 and the other $5 is for the table? Is it actually $60,000 and they’re being really generous and giving backers the table for free, assuming that non-backers will pay for the development costs? There’s really been no information other than saying they need to raise $60,000. Maybe I’m just being too cynical at this point.
It also concerns me what this does for the licensing of future tables. Maybe they could have got the license for something like Addams Family for $10,000 (unlikely, but lets say it was hypothetically) but now they see that both Twilight Zone and Star Trek raised $60,000 maybe they want $60,000 for it now too—or maybe they feel that their IP is more valuable than Star Trek or the Twilight Zone, and they want more than $60,000 now. And the more Kickstarter projects are done, the less sustainable I think it is going to be. I think there’s a Kickstarter bubble going on right now, that is probably due to burst before the end of the year. (perhaps that’s why they’re doing it now rather than wait until Twilight Zone is done)
The last few releases on iOS have had some serious bugs—to the point where many tables were completely unplayable—and there are many outstanding issues that impact gameplay.
They have our money for Twilight Zone, but we don’t have the table yet—I understand that it takes time to work into their schedule and actually build the table (I think they said November?) but I don’t think they should have launched this new Kickstarter until the old one was completed and we had at least seen the results from it, and what state The Pinball Arcade was in at that stage. If they haven’t fixed most of the outstanding bugs by then, I don’t know that I would want to continue supporting the project.
And frankly, I have zero interest in the Star Trek license, so I’m not willing to pay $10 for the table—I will certainly purchase it if the Kickstarter is successful though.
I thought this with Twilight Zone as well, but it also seems unfair that Kickstarter backers—the people that should be rewarded for making this happen—have to pay $10 for the table, yet if it’s successful, anyone else will only need to pay half that. I think that the $10 starting tier should be the first one that at least gives some sort of bonus like the TNG Pinball to use on all tables. (actually, I think it’s quite shocking that you need to pay $50 to get access to the table operator’s menu)
Is it really that the license is $30,000 and the other $5 is for the table? Is it actually $60,000 and they’re being really generous and giving backers the table for free, assuming that non-backers will pay for the development costs? There’s really been no information other than saying they need to raise $60,000. Maybe I’m just being too cynical at this point.
It also concerns me what this does for the licensing of future tables. Maybe they could have got the license for something like Addams Family for $10,000 (unlikely, but lets say it was hypothetically) but now they see that both Twilight Zone and Star Trek raised $60,000 maybe they want $60,000 for it now too—or maybe they feel that their IP is more valuable than Star Trek or the Twilight Zone, and they want more than $60,000 now. And the more Kickstarter projects are done, the less sustainable I think it is going to be. I think there’s a Kickstarter bubble going on right now, that is probably due to burst before the end of the year. (perhaps that’s why they’re doing it now rather than wait until Twilight Zone is done)
- Feb 19, 2012
- 1,991
- 3
The $60,000 to license the table (and TZ) go directly to CBS. Think of it this way - that's $60,000 to put it on par with Medieval Madness, or any other non-licensed property. The only reason they did this was because fans of the game encouraged them to explore funding the table this way. That doesn't mean every other licensed property will cost a lot of money and need a Kickstarter. Also, The Addams Family is NOT just about money needed for licensing. There are other issues that need to be worked out if they want to release that table.
It's fine if someone doesn't want to support the Kickstarter for a table; that's your right. However, there are tons of us that are willing to fund this because it's a table we'd love to see. I funded TZ, and ST:TNG, but that's because those are two of my very, very top tables that I want to see in the game. If it was a Kickstarter for something like T2 (a table I enjoyed playing in the arcade), I may not fund it because that's not a table I really, really want to see, but I'd understand those that wanted to see it released.
It's fine if someone doesn't want to support the Kickstarter for a table; that's your right. However, there are tons of us that are willing to fund this because it's a table we'd love to see. I funded TZ, and ST:TNG, but that's because those are two of my very, very top tables that I want to see in the game. If it was a Kickstarter for something like T2 (a table I enjoyed playing in the arcade), I may not fund it because that's not a table I really, really want to see, but I'd understand those that wanted to see it released.
Sean
New member
- Jun 13, 2012
- 682
- 0
Pretty much my feelings. TNG is my all-time fave; I basically funded TZ because of the possibility of future licensed tables - namely this one. I don't know anything about The Addams Family table and I doubt I'd fund that to the same extent, if at all because I'd rather see more unlicensed stuff first, but I respect that others are really wanting it.
I think Farsight has been very clear about what the money is for, but if people doubt, so be it. I don't think a company using kickstarter needs to open their financials to get someone's $10 contribution.
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- Mar 17, 2012
- 4,293
- 0
The $60,000 doesn't even cover the whole license...it's just for the upfront costs. There's still a royalty that has to be paid per unit sold.
I admit, there are some licensed tables that I would not support...if FarSight wanted $60K for Stern's Avatar table, I would respond with mockery. But TZ and ST:TNG are tables that would have been counted in the top 20 even without their licensed themes. These tables are Lawlor's and Ritchie's magnum opus tables...we want them included in TPA.
I admit, there are some licensed tables that I would not support...if FarSight wanted $60K for Stern's Avatar table, I would respond with mockery. But TZ and ST:TNG are tables that would have been counted in the top 20 even without their licensed themes. These tables are Lawlor's and Ritchie's magnum opus tables...we want them included in TPA.
bavelb
New member
- Apr 16, 2012
- 1,238
- 0
You got it wrong, the 11k was jusyt for buying the table (as Jay says in the video).
The agreement for 60k with CBS was timesensitive. The fear you express is the exact reason thye had to act for sttng now. If they waited for TZ and it would sell hotcakes Iand they would know due to ryalties), CBS might have asked double or more for sttng.
But really, whats up with the essays on why you dont want to pledge? Just dont pledge if you dont feel comfortable, there is no reason to defend yourself, you can thank us once we funded it and you get to buy it.
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bavelb
New member
- Apr 16, 2012
- 1,238
- 0
mmmagnetic
New member
- May 29, 2012
- 601
- 0
Okay, since I´ve never played TNG, I have some questions:
The playfield looks pretty barren to me. I guess this is a combination of a widebody machine and a playfield that is relatively empty in the middle area. Now, Steve Richie tables like the two High Speed machines, ACDC, F14, T2 etc look like there´s more going on on the playfield.
Keep in mind, I haven´t played ANY of these tables, but I´m trying to form a half-baked opinion to help me decide how much I´m going to pledge.
Back on the TZ kickstarter I had relatively little experience with Lawlor tables, but it certainly looked like a very interesting, mysterious game. I´m not a big Star Trek fan, and I´m wondering how much peoples ratings are influence by the theme itself. I´m not saying this is the only element of it, so far none of the tables on TPA have disappointed me, and a bad table never can be saved by a popular theme, but I think it is a factor.
It looks pretty interesting on the PAPA tutorial vid, but Bowen lets a lot of modes time out (and he says he would usually let even more time out during tournament play, but doesn´t actually do it on video to not bore the viewers). Timing out modes is one of these few things I really dislike on pinball machines, it feels to me like they shouldn´t even be in the game when it ends up making me waste time. The loops look kinda nice, but it doesn´t seem as exciting as The Getaway for instance.
To sum it up, this is the first time I´ve checked out a "top ten" table on ipdb, on videos and such and didn´t really understand what exactly makes this table rank so highly (well, that and Indy). I´m fully aware that it´s impossible to judge a table before I actually played it, and I´ve done plenty of 180s on machines I didn´t enjoy at first and then eventually ended up loving them... Maybe fans of this tables are nostalgic for it? Big Star Trek fans? Again, this doesn´t seem like a bad table at all to me, it just doesn´t look as captivating as, say, MM, TAF, or the JPop games.
I will pledge SOME money for sure, mostly because TPA has given me a TON of enjoyment for very little money, and I feel like supporting them as well as future Kickstarters, but right now this machine doesn´t really inspire me.
So, TNG fans, people who actually played it - please tell me how wrong I am, and convince me how good it is
The playfield looks pretty barren to me. I guess this is a combination of a widebody machine and a playfield that is relatively empty in the middle area. Now, Steve Richie tables like the two High Speed machines, ACDC, F14, T2 etc look like there´s more going on on the playfield.
Keep in mind, I haven´t played ANY of these tables, but I´m trying to form a half-baked opinion to help me decide how much I´m going to pledge.
Back on the TZ kickstarter I had relatively little experience with Lawlor tables, but it certainly looked like a very interesting, mysterious game. I´m not a big Star Trek fan, and I´m wondering how much peoples ratings are influence by the theme itself. I´m not saying this is the only element of it, so far none of the tables on TPA have disappointed me, and a bad table never can be saved by a popular theme, but I think it is a factor.
It looks pretty interesting on the PAPA tutorial vid, but Bowen lets a lot of modes time out (and he says he would usually let even more time out during tournament play, but doesn´t actually do it on video to not bore the viewers). Timing out modes is one of these few things I really dislike on pinball machines, it feels to me like they shouldn´t even be in the game when it ends up making me waste time. The loops look kinda nice, but it doesn´t seem as exciting as The Getaway for instance.
To sum it up, this is the first time I´ve checked out a "top ten" table on ipdb, on videos and such and didn´t really understand what exactly makes this table rank so highly (well, that and Indy). I´m fully aware that it´s impossible to judge a table before I actually played it, and I´ve done plenty of 180s on machines I didn´t enjoy at first and then eventually ended up loving them... Maybe fans of this tables are nostalgic for it? Big Star Trek fans? Again, this doesn´t seem like a bad table at all to me, it just doesn´t look as captivating as, say, MM, TAF, or the JPop games.
I will pledge SOME money for sure, mostly because TPA has given me a TON of enjoyment for very little money, and I feel like supporting them as well as future Kickstarters, but right now this machine doesn´t really inspire me.
So, TNG fans, people who actually played it - please tell me how wrong I am, and convince me how good it is
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Matt McIrvin
New member
- Jun 5, 2012
- 801
- 0
I thought this with Twilight Zone as well, but it also seems unfair that Kickstarter backers—the people that should be rewarded for making this happen—have to pay $10 for the table, yet if it’s successful, anyone else will only need to pay half that.
That's in the nature of Kickstarter. The people who pitch in are the people who have a sufficient interest in making the project happen that they don't mind paying more than people who don't care as much. I gladly gave more money to the TZ Kickstarter than the monetary value of the reward I'll get, because I was that interested in seeing a TPA version of Twilight Zone.
I haven't yet decided if I'm still confident enough about Farsight's ability to deliver content to contribute to this one. But given that, it'd still make sense.
That's in the nature of Kickstarter. The people who pitch in are the people who have a sufficient interest in making the project happen that they don't mind paying more than people who don't care as much. I gladly gave more money to the TZ Kickstarter than the monetary value of the reward I'll get, because I was that interested in seeing a TPA version of Twilight Zone.
I haven't yet decided if I'm still confident enough about Farsight's ability to deliver content to contribute to this one. But given that, it'd still make sense.
bavelb
New member
- Apr 16, 2012
- 1,238
- 0
First of, I'm not a Trekkie in the least, I do like STTNG (mostly season 3 and later), but dont own any on DVD or Bluray. I do like the STTNG movies. I dont care for original Star Trek. So now you know where my allegiances are
In regards to your comments:
Dont forget some PAPA tutorials are made to make sure you get the most score out of only 3 balls with everything set to the most difficult, so certain video's show you how to avoid any sort of risk to get to the most lucrative score. Some PAPA video's are more meant to show of the table and it's capabilities, but from all the video's Ive seen, this one is the one that shows that the least and is a barebones: how to get a high score by reaching Final Frontier. It is also known as a difficult machine, so in a tournament, players like to avoid all risk.
When you have more balls at your disposal and the table isnt set AS difficult, you should abolutely play the modes as that is where the meat of the game is. It is one of the deepest rulesets
You might say it's not the best Tournament machine for that reason (as the risk/reward leans a bit too much towards the Risk ratio), but one of the better machine to have unlimited access to, and just play for fun. It has a very deep ruleset, and you'll discover new things constantly. I'm inclined to say you might wanna skip reading the instructions on this one, to avoid spoiling surprises. Despite its deep ruleset the table communictes VERY well on what needs to be hit.
It's known as one of the "slower" Ritchie tables, but it does have the typical Ritchie flow. You mentioned the open playfield and that is true: and I love it. This avoids the lawlor/jpop STDM drainrisk of the usual TPA fair (dont get me wrong I love em both) and instead we get a lot of room for longer clean shots and tons of toys aroudn the whole playfield.
If I would have one machine in my home, it would be TZ, TAF or STTNG, and out of those STTNG would probably win because of the deep theme integration with the modes and *the* absolute best overall presentation values in a pinball game. The full cast cooperated with developing this machine, which is why each castmember received a "free" custom table. It's the single most immersive table for that reason. edit: come to think of it, it's one of the real life pinball tables that come closest to a Zen table in its theme/table integration, but with the real voice acotrs and without the weird stuff flying around your table.
To just watch and hear the table, maybe look at this video to give you an impression how someone like you and I would play it.
In regards to your comments:
Dont forget some PAPA tutorials are made to make sure you get the most score out of only 3 balls with everything set to the most difficult, so certain video's show you how to avoid any sort of risk to get to the most lucrative score. Some PAPA video's are more meant to show of the table and it's capabilities, but from all the video's Ive seen, this one is the one that shows that the least and is a barebones: how to get a high score by reaching Final Frontier. It is also known as a difficult machine, so in a tournament, players like to avoid all risk.
When you have more balls at your disposal and the table isnt set AS difficult, you should abolutely play the modes as that is where the meat of the game is. It is one of the deepest rulesets
You might say it's not the best Tournament machine for that reason (as the risk/reward leans a bit too much towards the Risk ratio), but one of the better machine to have unlimited access to, and just play for fun. It has a very deep ruleset, and you'll discover new things constantly. I'm inclined to say you might wanna skip reading the instructions on this one, to avoid spoiling surprises. Despite its deep ruleset the table communictes VERY well on what needs to be hit.
It's known as one of the "slower" Ritchie tables, but it does have the typical Ritchie flow. You mentioned the open playfield and that is true: and I love it. This avoids the lawlor/jpop STDM drainrisk of the usual TPA fair (dont get me wrong I love em both) and instead we get a lot of room for longer clean shots and tons of toys aroudn the whole playfield.
If I would have one machine in my home, it would be TZ, TAF or STTNG, and out of those STTNG would probably win because of the deep theme integration with the modes and *the* absolute best overall presentation values in a pinball game. The full cast cooperated with developing this machine, which is why each castmember received a "free" custom table. It's the single most immersive table for that reason. edit: come to think of it, it's one of the real life pinball tables that come closest to a Zen table in its theme/table integration, but with the real voice acotrs and without the weird stuff flying around your table.
To just watch and hear the table, maybe look at this video to give you an impression how someone like you and I would play it.
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Matt McIrvin
New member
- Jun 5, 2012
- 801
- 0
My affection for this machine is certainly partly to do with the cleverly done theming (which includes a surprising amount of deadpan Trek-fan humor), and partly nostalgia: it was the single table I played the most during the period when I was playing a lot of real-life pinball, and it was the one on which I evolved beyond frantic two-flipper spamming.
But it's a lot of fun. You do spend a lot of time making that center shot under the Borg ship. The one thing I'd criticize about it is that the most prominent feature of the table is those ball cannons at the lower left and right, and they only ever come into play in one mode, which is probably the one you're most likely to let time out. On a real table, they're also very likely to break, but this isn't an issue in a simulation.
But it's a lot of fun. You do spend a lot of time making that center shot under the Borg ship. The one thing I'd criticize about it is that the most prominent feature of the table is those ball cannons at the lower left and right, and they only ever come into play in one mode, which is probably the one you're most likely to let time out. On a real table, they're also very likely to break, but this isn't an issue in a simulation.